Erynn999 by Ben

July 2009

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Erynn999 by Ben

Work and fear

It seems like my post with the Brighid imagery struck a real chord with people. One of my friends went as far as to call me this afternoon and thank me for addressing the concept of deity yoga in a CR context. The person has been doing work of this sort for a while but, as with so many things in CR, didn't dare mention it in public for fear of being taken to task over it. I don't like the stifling atmosphere that has been created around CR, where people are afraid to say anything that could possibly be construed as "not Celtic" because they know they are going to be hassled over it.

An orthodoxy of fear has already evolved within the community and it's not pretty. Yet when people talk privately to me about their own practices, so often I see people doing wonderful, innovative things. I see people whose practices have touched upon shared inspirations without any real discussion of it, manifesting in everything from a shared gnosis that Airmid has associations with moss agate to the idea of working with iconic images and using them to understand and embody deity in a manner similar to eastern deity yoga practices.

When people are afraid to talk about what they're getting there's no reason to believe that CR as a community or even as an individual practice is going to evolve. People are afraid to write ritual because they're afraid of violating unstated guidelines or offending other practitioners. They're afraid of doing it "wrong" at least in part because no actual "right" way has yet been articulated, but we've certainly seen the social penalties for disagreement within the community.

Aisling and archaeology. It's a phrase I've been using since the beginning of my involvement with this, back when I founded the Nemeton discussion list. Vision and history as equals, as equally necessary. Both must be measured against the other. Without history we have nothing to support our practice. Without vision, history is sterile dust. We are denying ourselves a rich and engaging colloquy about practice and community when we stifle outlying perceptions and voices -- and yet so much of the task of the fili is to walk within those mists, to dwell in those boundary places between tribes and perceptions and worlds.

I see so many innovative, fascinating people being cut out of reconstructionist Pagan communities for not playing along with an increasingly conservative orthodoxy, and it disturbs me profoundly. We need the mystics, the poets, the visionaries. We need the comparativists and the syncretists and the folks working in multiple traditions. We need the people working with the An-déithe as much as we need the ones working with the Déithe. We need the people who are walking the edges, even if they (and I include myself in this) sometimes make false steps -- how will we find the path through the darkness if we don't put one foot in front of the other and correct for errors when they happen? Is it only acceptable "to boldly go" on a tv screen with big-budget special effects and a nice, safe script?

We need more experimentation, not less. We need to envision our deities and embody them, to examine the virtues and practice them, to speak poetic words that push the boundaries of our knowledge and leave us gasping at the edge of the abyss. Standing on the bedrock of the past, we must cut new stone and build new temples to our deities. With the seeds of trees lying withered, we must plant new groves on the nurse logs of tradition. My vision and articulation of CR has always been a reconstruction of the path suited to our time and our place, based on the threads and patterns we can find but woven in colorful new cloth. The deities live and grow and learn even as we do. They are not static, changeless images bypassed by time.

One of our virtues is courage. We need to have the courage to bring forth our visions, to speak of our work so that we won't feel so alone with our insights and our challenges. I see too many good people stifled by our community's fears of mysticism and direct engagement with deity, of being "wrong", of looking foolish, of being different.

Even the geilta met in Gleann Bolcain to ease their loneliness and share their visions. Should we settle for less?
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Comments

Beautifully said.
Thanks :D I knew you'd get it.
No surprises that I agree with you on every point here...

I'm about ready to take yet another example from the actual heroic tales in relation to the nay-sayers in this regard: feckin' fidchell pieces embedded in their heads. They might bitch that it hurts an awful lot, and might in fact lower their honor-price, but they can't say it isn't "traditional"!
*laughs*

Have I mentioned recently that I love you?
That is the most lovely and concise poetic rant I've read all month.

You have nailed precisely the reasons I quit considering myself CR quite a while back.
I regret that you felt you needed to leave, but I definitely understand why! I refuse to let myself be defined out of the tradition.
It's very important that you and others keep speaking against such orthodoxy. You're probably dealign with just a few loud people, spoiling it for everyone else, because they feel a need to be self-important.
This is in large part the case, but their effect is strong enough to scare away people in disproportionate numbers. Part of what I want to do is encourage others to speak out with me so that we can reclaim the dialogue in the community and open things up for the unorthodoxy ;)

re: Work and fear... or, death and ortho-doctors.

. i would ask all those neo-orthodox thinkers to recall the fate of our predecessors-in-thinking at the hands of those who professed to 'know The Truth'... and to beware of such deadly certainty!

. well said, my dear, courageous, sister!

Re: Work and fear... or, death and ortho-doctors.

Thanks, Moon!
Without vision, history is sterile dust.

I loved this imagery. Especially in the light of, last summer, almost suffocating on such grand historic sterile dust while cleaning something as excruciatingly important to our understanding of history (i.e. not at all) as a bucket full of 1500 year old goat bones out of a floor level.

We could be analysing the facts and expanding our experiences, but the community (they, we, an oligarchy, I don't even know anymore) is too busy making sure everyone are brushing goat bones.
Yep, that's the perfect image of it. Brushing goat bones.
I don't call myself a reconstructionist, in large part because I've seen plenty of evidence for just this "orthodoxy of fear" and I have nothing but disdain for it.

These revived religions are still works in progress, and there's no way to know yet just what forms they will assume -- if they survive in the long term at all, which shouldn't be taken for granted. As you say, we need more experimentation, not less, if we're really to create something viable.
I know I can't take the survival, or even the growth, of CR for granted. Things get stifled too regularly for me to trust it can continue to breathe.
Amen.
Woo-woo!
This is exactly why I have not spent much time examining CR as a community. My path recently has become rocky and I am seeking a new way for myself and I have steadfastly resisted looking to the CR communities for just this reason. Glad to see that my impressions are not just those of an outsider.
I'm trying to change that and to open CR up to be what I originally envisioned the path as being. But I can't do that alone.
Many years ago I started a discussion group. We read Celtic mythology and history, and talked about our practices. My eventual goal was to form a loose working group, but every other person there no matter how interested and involved they were with working with Celtic deities and realms and approached the whole matter in a way I considered strongly reconstructionist, shied away from ever self-identifying as CR. They had been scared away because they felt they didn't "know enough", like there was some sort of imaginary examination they would have to pass to claim that tradition.

When that group dissolved I went looking again, and found ADF. I met soooo many people in ADF who were strongly reconstructionist in their methods and approach, some even more "conservative than I, but again shied completely away from CR because it was too restrictive and they felt castigated because they dared even speak the word "druid". These people were doing incredible work with deity, creating incredibly rich and rewarding rituals, and embodied the virtue of hospitality in a way I have never seen before or since. And yet, they would not approach CR forums.

I have fallen into that trap also. I do not discuss my own work in CR forums for fear of being criticized as too syncretic. I was flabbergasted when I read that description of Brighid... for the similarities to my own vision of Her, and for the shocking realization that others might be using some sort of "Hindu glue", a concept I have discussed at length with others in ADF but never would have considered discussing in a CR forum.

Isn't that sad?
It's terribly sad. While I've seen some people who are essentially just trying to do Hinduism with knotwork, I think that Hinduism can be a useful inspiration without going so far as all that.

It annoys and exasperates me that people avoid CR because of the people who are trying to dictate it down to its last jot and tittle, as it were. I never wanted the path to turn into this. And so I'm embarking on an active campaign to bring it back to something that I can feel good about doing and sharing with other people. But that's going to take time and effort.

Wish me luck, eh?
I need to read this further when I am more awake, but CR is far from the only recon tradition where this happens. I'm also sure you're quite aware of that fact.
Oh, definitely. I see it in Asatru and some of the others as well.
"The deities live and grow and learn even as we do. They are not static, changeless images bypassed by time."

Exactly! Very well spoken, Erynn.
Thanks. I'm taking back CR ;)
You and your timely posting. You're two for two.

I was thinking about this yesterday, and how the personal path I'm working on will never be -- and can never be -- "authentic."

My inner cynic likes to point out that I'm working with two characters from medieval documents and a transplanted Irish saint in a system that I'm having to pull largely out of the ether because nobody wrote anything down, and there aren't enough traces of the culture to know what people did every day with their gods. I've got good intentions, a funny necklace, and some crap on my dresser. I don't deserve the title CR, and wonder if it's something I can even do.

And then something awesome happens that rings of one of them, and I go back to my shrine and hope I'm not fucking up too badly...
You deserve the CR title just as much as any of the nay-sayers and orthodoxy-enforcers do, if not more so. You're aware of the material you're working with and its limitations (for good and ill), which is much more than can be said for some of these people. They break and bend the rules freely for themselves, basing their practices on lately-attested folk tradition, ideas of syncretism that incorporate their own varied influences but no one else's, and a variety of other things...and to be honest, they really need to have more people tell them "STFU."

Speaking of which, I may have to make a post about/somewhat related to this in the main CR community and get the ball rolling...stay tuned!
The dichotomy within "CR" that I see that causes a major number of issues is this: There is a core of textual-evidence dependent scholars whose motto seems to be "Non scriptum, non est." If it isn't written down, it doesn't exist. I once had a member of once such group, who had archly told me that one must do such things (CR), in the context of a Gaelic community, tell me that a group of people who gathered on the Hill of Tara at the Equinox to celebrate, and only used Gaelic for deity names, and English for everything else, was doing it wrong! What gall! (and no, I don't mean Gaul)

The other end of the spectrum is represented by the "one from column "A", one from column "B"" sort of practitioners who'll gleefully borrow any technique they see and try to tack Celtic labels on it because "Well, they might have done this".

I will admit to some of that myself, in wanting to find some way of doing a "Celtic Sweat Lodge" -- the tigh nollish (and I know I've spelled that wrong) isn't exactly such a thing, and was likely used to a different end, but I spent a long time wanting to make it one. Slapping a Gaelic name on something lifted from another culture's ways is not just a cultural version of a cattle raid, but it's an attempt to force another culture's technique into a psychic framework that may not fit.

I've shied away from calling myself "CR" or "GT" or anything like that, for a number of reasons. One: I'm not attempting to "restore" anything. I'm not a pre-Christian tribal Celt living with my "fine". I'm a 21st-century, college-educated American male former soldier, whose heart longs for the sense of belonging and tribe that that culture offered. I am not going to see the gods as my ancestors did -- I relate to them in my own way. I might call myself "Celtic Inspired", but that smacks too much of bad movies "inspired" by good books, or derivative literature "in the tradition of . . ."

I sometimes like to say that I practice my faith in exactly the same way my ancestors did: I'm making it up as I go along.

This leads, however to the question: how do we call ourselves that do such things -- taking the inspiration, lessons and lore of the ancient Celts and bringing the practices forward? What are we? I'm certainly not "wiccan", yet I find myself using symbols that I learned there. I'm not "famtrad", "brittrad" or any of those variants. What am I?

Your point about vision and history is perfectly valid, and also your phrase about "aisling and archaeology". The question remains.

Edited at 2008-04-29 04:29 pm (UTC)
This pretty much describes where I'm coming from, except in relationship to the Northern Trad. I tried being Recon and it didn't work. I couldn't fit my own practises inside that tightly defined scope. So now I don't call myself Recon and I don't expect Recons to validate what I do. I'm true to the Gods and the lore as I have interpreted it, with lots of UPG thrown in, and I find my practise becoming increasingly multitrad, but I hope that doesn't evolve into mindless eclectism.

But I also think it's important to respect cultural origins and not to rob things from other cultures or oppropriate labels that I don't feel belong to me.
Yeah, it makes me nervous. Some people already tell me I shouldn't call myself CR, because I find value in later sources.
Considering how the great bulk of our material is post-Christian as it is, I find that dividing line to be rather strange. I may not use as much of it as some, but it's still within a Celtic cultural continuum. Heck, part of my reasoning for supporting male Brigidine flame tenders is my refusal to act as if I know better than the nuns who revived the tradition in the first place because the modern culture deserves respect.
We need the comparativists and the syncretists and the folks working in multiple traditions.

As one of those folks working in multiple traditions, who's often afraid to speak up in online forums on CR because I'm quite sure I don't know enough and I'll only end up getting told as much, I want to thank you for this essay from the bottom of my heart.
I want to break the back of that fear. I want people to speak up. I don't want to say these things alone.
I'm still defining the terms of my personal practice as I don't have a community close by to work with. A few friends, but that's more general stuff, nothing strictly "CR" focused.

I try to glean what information I can to help me establish an accurate and meaningful tradition that's respectful and authentic (as much as it can be) and as something I can at least identify with other people's practices, even if our interpretations or stances on certain things don't agree.

BUT anybody who presumes to tell me what I can and cannot include in my [b]own personal practice[/b] will earn my ire and find themselves ostracized. Not that I think it would matter much to them, which makes it easier cut ties with people like that.

Diversity is lost when it's not okay to disagree, or be at odds with something or someone and still coexist. I mean FFS, sometimes it seems certain people are going out of there way to cut themselves off from other people in the community. The truest measure of the success of a group, especially one that is ostensibly spiritual, is whether or not it tolerate people having differing points of view while sharing enough common interests, beliefs, etc, etc to be able to identify as part of said group.

I hope that makes sense. I'm feeling under the weather today, so I might not be able to brain as well as I'd like...

Just as something being overly diluted is a danger, the same can be said for something be overly homogenized.
I hope that makes sense. I'm feeling under the weather today, so I might not be able to brain as well as I'd like...

As is evidenced by that sentence being in the wrong place and the presence of the wrong code to bold certain words...

Oi vey!
I'm here from [info]lupabitch and [info]witchchild.

Well said, and beautifully written.

This has long been my problem with several reconstructionist communities, CR and Heathenry in particular. I am primarily Kemetic (and oh so very glad that the Kemetic community values UPG!), but my ancestry is European (Hungarian, Germanic, and French, mostly, with a smattering of just about every country in W. Europe), and I've considered on multiple occasions delving into practices from those areas as a sort of secondary faith in order to honor my akhu (ancestors).

So I've looked into reconstructionist communities, but the rigidity of CR and Heathenry have made me very hesitant to do more than watch and listen. I feel that experience and relevance is of equal importance to academia and research--that reconstruction without experience is a religion with form but no heart, but an experiential path without any grounding in research and cultural knowledge has heart but little form and little respect to the culture of inspiration.

I'm rambling a bit, I guess. Just wanted to say I relate to what you've written, and think it's important that it be voiced.
Thanks for coming and for commenting. If you ever feel a desire to look into anything Celtic, I'll be right there to support you in your multi-trad work.
Very encouraging, very well said, and very well-timed. Thanks so much!
You're very welcome!
===Nicely written.

Thank you.
Thank you for being brave and outspoken enough to speak on this subject. It was eloquent, well-put and needed. I have no ire where most reconstructionists are concerned, but the orthodoxy (not to be confused with discipline in my opinion) is something needing definite caution.

Thanks,

Sarenth
Thanks. It was a hard post to make for a variety of reasons and it's currently being discussed in [info]cr_r with a lot of discussion about how I'm a terrible eclectic rather than addressing the issue of how people are beaten down in online discussions. Unfortunately, this just goes to prove the point I was making -- that people are afraid to speak up for fear of being attacked.
I'd like to say I'm sorry to see the strife this topic has stirred up, but I can't. I think it's overdue.

I tried CR on for a while. I'm a reasonably intelligent human being - went to university, can muddle my way through a text fairly well, etc, etc. I joined some of the recon communities on LJ. I read. A lot.

But I never really said a word. Not sure why I, but I definetely had that fear - that I didn't know enough, that what I was doing wasn't 'right'. UPG seemed like
a four-letter word - I certainly have enough of my own,
but I wasn't willing to put it out there to see if it was shared in any way.

I never got to a point where I was really comfortable with what I was doing ritually. It seemed stiff, dry,
and frankly boring. I never found a balance of inspiration and knowledge inside CR. And I certainly never felt any sense of community. Nothing ever really drew me towards making a connection with people.

I feel badly, sometimes, that I didn't try harder, and that I just walked away. But I'm with an Alexandrian Wiccan coven at this point, and I know I can bring my knowledge to bear and into balance with the inspiration I get from the ritual structure. I'm happy being a Wiccan; I just wonder sometimes if I'd have been happy as a recon if I'd had a different experience.

Thank you for opening the can of worms. :)
Thanks at least for addressing it here. I've got people claiming that I'm making this up and that people aren't really "afraid to post" they're just afraid to debate. Which, of course, is bullshit. There's a difference between engaging in debates on point and having to endure accusations of being "too eclectic" if you mention anything outside a narrow set of criteria.

I'm glad you found a place where you're happy. I was an Alexandrian for a while myself, before I moved over to CR. Mostly I'm happy here, I just wish that the community wasn't so up its own arse.
I came here from [info]lupabitch.

I think you've expressed this beautifully. I've also noticed this kind of orthodoxy in the CR community and it's distressing to see so many people cut off because they feel "not CR enough." It's dangerous as well as the CR community could lose the wisdom of so much vision and stagnate into a rigid, unfriendly tradition.

Thank you for posting about this, here and on [info]cr_r. It was brave of you to post this there, especially considering the response you got.

Edited at 2008-05-03 06:37 am (UTC)
Thanks for reading and commenting. Yeah, I was expecting fur to fly if I posted it over in [info]cr_r but I do note that after posting it, people have finally started discussions again, both there and on their personal LJs, without necessarily having the posts locked. I hope that it's shaken a few things loose and that people will take up the challenge and be willing to speak about their experiences.

I've seen far too much on Nemeton and Imbas-Public and other forums over the years. I've been complicit in some of it myself, much to my chagrin. I know that most of it isn't about being mean-spirited so much as about trying to find certainty and the "right" answers. I'm just concerned about how closed the discourse has become over the years, so different from when we were all first learning and exploring.

The result of posting on [info]cr_r has admittedly been stressful, but if it gives people heart enough to speak again, openly, and to enquire with courage, then the stress is worth it.
I am glad you posted this.

Paganism, although based on old religion, is still relatively new. There is a push, now, towards "orthodoxy". It is trying to legitimetize itself. It is trying to establish cannon. Christianity did exactly the same thing in the first century. It is fascinating to watch from the outside a scholar. However, when one is a part of it, it can be difficult at times, for the very reasons which you describe.
Living within it every day, as I do, makes that kind of struggle for orthodoxy very difficult. I think we can have legitimacy without having to draw lines that echo those of monotheism, but at the same time we have to realize that our legitimacy doesn't depend on those same monotheists accepting us. We need to define ourselves within our own traditions, not for the convenience of hostile outsiders.

I'm sure it's fascinating to watch as an outsider. Sometimes I wish I had that luxury ;)
Having read all the posts here and scanned the posts over at cr-r I'm wondering if Reconstructionism hasn't come to a crossroads. Maybe Hekate could enlighten us a bit. ;-) One road leads down the Recon path already established and the other leads down a reformed path. Maybe Erynn, you might want to consider leading those of us down the reformed path: Reformed Reconstructionism... RR.

If you were around where i was around on line when I was investigating CR I think I would have investigated it longer.

OT: My notify of posts by email is busted. It says I should be getting notifications, but I'm not. So if I don't respond to a response to one of my responses, I'm sorry. :-) If you have an answer to my dilemma with LJ settings, please message me.
Yeah, I can understand why you'd suggest it but I'm not sure how I feel about it. I still think there's room for many paths within CR, which is what has been said all along. There has always been something of a difference in attitude and practice between the folks back east and the folks in the west. Huge political differences ended up with the GTs parting company many years back, though there has been an attempt to rewrite their history so that it doesn't include CR at all on the part of many of the folks who claim that name. It's kind of a fraught situation, really, and I have no idea what to do beyond just keep doing what I'm doing and writing my articles and books.